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Hi!

I made a LiveCD 2009 topic a few months ago, it got quite a lot of replies too. Now suddenly it disappeared. Any ideas where did it go?

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Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:34 pm
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Sorry mate that would be my doing when I was trying to move a post where someone was blatantly trying to sell software that was in violation of the GPL.
I hit the wrong button. :(


Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:03 pm
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How can selling stuff under GPL be wrong? Did I miss something? So if someone takes Zoneminder and packages it up in a user friendly cd or dvd, that's wrong? I don't see how it is, so long as the source is provided and not locked down. If someone want's to buy it, buy it, and if they have a problem with it they can go to your site and download the source and figure out how to put it all together. This was a quick search on google about GPL,

"Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)"


Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:21 am
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foxtroop11 wrote:
How can selling stuff under GPL be wrong? Did I miss something? So if someone takes Zoneminder and packages it up in a user friendly cd or dvd, that's wrong? I don't see how it is, so long as the source is provided and not locked down. If someone want's to buy it, buy it, and if they have a problem with it they can go to your site and download the source and figure out how to put it all together. This was a quick search on google about GPL,

"Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)"

Provided you are the copyright holder yes that is correct and it has to be unmodified or the source provided and released under the same terms. If you going to quote the GPL don't quote just the section that works for you. Phil is the copyright holder, If you want to license Zoneminder for sale, then you need to work that out in arraignment Phil. Otherwise selling his copyrighted work is in violation.

You will notice that all the LiveCD's that Ross Melin, Bluecherry, and myself have done have all been free of charge, the iso's available free for download and available for the community. We have also passed everything we have done back to the community and send patches back to Phil.


Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:30 am
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Understood, not trying to say rip Zoneminder off. I was just saying if someone did all the work to put it together for someone I don't see what's wrong with asking something for it, but it appears there is more to this GPL then I had time to read.

So forget selling a DVD, you guys have got that covered. What did get me thinking is another thread and somewhere someone else mentioned it. What about a VPS, Zoneminder is of course setup and would come with it, but the only thing being paid for is the Virtual Machine, bandwidth, and full root access to any version the person wants. Is that doable? Would that be something I could work with you guys on and provide something constructive to the community? I know it would work, and I'm thinking about shipping a couple VPS servers to hosted co-location, but I'd hate to pay a couple grand and not run it through you guys.


Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:50 am
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Actually someone has already started something like this. When they are ready to talk I'm sure they will chime in. Just not my place to discuss it.


Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:13 am
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LOL, everytime I think I have a good idea it's already taken. I'll wait and see if this person chimes in, curious how well they are doing.


Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:29 am
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cordel wrote:
Sorry mate that would be my doing when I was trying to move a post where someone was blatantly trying to sell software that was in violation of the GPL.
I hit the wrong button. :(
And that's it? Or was it maybe kinda 'intended'... Sorry for this suspection, but as far as I understood, the guy didn't want to actually sell anything he just made new types of Live CDs - but someone first deleted the link to the download location, and after that, the entire topic got deleted.
I definitely remember not reading anything about selling or buying.
Any chance do restore that topic from a backup?

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:56 pm
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robi wrote:
cordel wrote:
Sorry mate that would be my doing when I was trying to move a post where someone was blatantly trying to sell software that was in violation of the GPL.
I hit the wrong button. :(
And that's it? Or was it maybe kinda 'intended'... Sorry for this suspection, but as far as I understood, the guy didn't want to actually sell anything he just made new types of Live CDs - but someone first deleted the link to the download location, and after that, the entire topic got deleted.
I definitely remember not reading anything about selling or buying.
Any chance do restore that topic from a backup?


If you still have the full path of the forum thread you could try Google cache to see if you could recover some of it and create a new thread. It's not optimal but I doubt there are any backups of the forums.

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Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:12 pm
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robi wrote:
And that's it? Or was it maybe kinda 'intended'... Sorry for this suspection, but as far as I understood, the guy didn't want to actually sell anything he just made new types of Live CDs - but someone first deleted the link to the download location, and after that, the entire topic got deleted.
I definitely remember not reading anything about selling or buying.
Any chance do restore that topic from a backup?


By the time you responded on the thread I had already removed two of his posts with the offer to sell the iso's (after he edited his post to conceal that he wanted to charge) and sent him a PM. That's why the last post, which you seen, said to PM him for information which is what you had caught and responded to which I thought was pretty underhanded and his intent was still obvious to me since I seen and removed by that time two of his posts in that thread. It was not intended to remove the whole thread, I clicked the wrong button . He also had never posted a link to download any thing only contact info of where to reach him to purchase until I posted that his post was not appropriate, at which time he edited his post.

The thread only had maybe five posts before that and Phil might be able to restore that thread. I don't have direct access into the database to restore one thread. I remember that Robi asked if a 2009 CD was going to be put out with 1.24.x and I responded that maybe after 1.24.x reaches release. Then there was maybe two or three other responses, before all this took place.

I told the guy if he wants to post a link to the iso and wants to offer it to the community he is free to do so. We'll see what happens from there.

Google Cache.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:34 am
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Wow, didn't know I had caused such a problem. I had actually emailed the correct person about the Live CD and was awaiting response. I did edit the post, but after I was warned so as to not cause any further issues. I did say send me a PM for the dvd. I can't afford to host a 1.6 gb dvd that just so happens to have Zoneminder 1.24 installed along with other programs for free, sorry. I will look into the GPL again as mentioned, and make sure I'm not doing anything wrong, but I'm pretty sure I had people look into this awhile back.

Anyway, this is a great product and thank everyone involved. As soon as I get a chance to trim down the size, I'll post a link for people to try it out. In the meantime, I have several slots open on vps dedicated bandwidth machines if people are interested in remote hosted servers with Zoneminder installed. I notice it mentioned elsewhere, but it's already be done and I've been offering this for some time to local customers in Germany.


Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:17 pm
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LOL, No big deal. I wasn't going to implicate ya, that wouldn't be cool either. But major kudos for backing me up 8) I think Robi is just upset that I oopsed and removed the whole post.
If you creating a mailable CD it's okay to charge for the "Labor and cost of postage and handling". The exact extent I'm not completely positive. You could likely get away with just including a README file on the disk with Links to get the source code for Debian, ZoneMinder, Webmin, etc... the Distro and stuff not normally part of the Distro on the Desktop or anywhere simple to find. You just can't re-brand anything on something you are distributing or charge for the software. ;) I think that pretty much covers it. If not, I am sure someone with better legal background can correct me. :)


Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:36 am
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I have posted in the 1.24 section about my DVD. Here is the links as promised. I've spoke with Ross Merlin via a PM and he has no problem with me offering a new DVD. Keep in mind, this is a rather large image. For all the details, please see the 1.24 forum section.

"Link will return once I verify the new build uploaded completely, sorry for any trouble"


Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:56 pm
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Thank you for the clarification, all is clear for me now. 8)

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Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:06 pm
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robi wrote:
Thank you for the clarification, all is clear for me now. 8)

NP, Thanks for the suspicion, :P


Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:30 pm
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